what are we now? 9:00 p.m. sunday. fox news. relive the dream. dream again. >> the federal government will conduct a national test of the emergency alert system. >> you cannot avoid it. it is everywhere. john: does it make you feel safe the government spent 40 years studying the assault assault -- soap.

do we need government to protect workers? >> absolutely. next? -- question. [laughter] >> good intentions and gone wrong. that is the show. tonight. john: politicians claimed they make life better to pass laws. they have good intentions but we should not judge by intention. politicians good intentions go wrong. work regulation. companies are not greedy they don't care about their workers but seems reasonable government has to protect them. almost everybody agrees. >> they should be protected. >> definitely.

so many things could have been. corporations could be corrupt. the government should step been. john: that makes sense. so much beyond the workers' control. safety rules. what does a factory owner care? that is why we need occupational safety and health administration. it sets safety rules. they will show how the workplace deaths dropped since the beginning. thank goodness for government. except look at this graph. workplace death was dropped even before osha dropping just as fast. getting in front of the parade of bartending and leads it. things get better on their own the people don't get

that. in european countries they write about high unemployment. those beloved worker protections are the reason they don't higher. they don't get that says our next guest on "wall street journal" reporter who reports on in europe and their work rules. from london, what do they get that we don't? >> european workers have the right to and protection of gainful unemployment. the minimum guaranteed staycation is 20 days paid not including weekend, additional time off , holidays. at france it starts at 25 per good european court of justice added on another to give a workers the right to to a vacation to over or

give back. >> for instance it used the for two weeks for your christmas holiday and use brain drain gold and the last eight-- you are laid up that means they automatically go into your sickly youth then you could have the vacation do over to make up for those days that you weren't that sec or hurt. john: if you say i have they cold? they have to give you that back? >> if it is dead doctor's note to to say she got the sniffles so she will need another seven days of paid vacation. john: italy first.

if you start a business and keep it small, up that 10 workers you have some flexibility but number 11 1/2 to have the self assessment outlying every possible health and safety hazard? >> yes. we're not just talking about heavy machinery but how you deal with specific stress with your age, gender, a doctor, the overwhelming majority of italian workers work with 10 or fewer employees. john: number 16 employee you have to have you representatives that is entitled to paid leave? >> eight hours per month. >> if you hire one more he must be disabled? >> number 16 the next one

must be disabled or you pay the fine. john: 51st, 7% of payroll must be handicapped. >> 7% must qualify as disabled. rates of disability are pretty high. john: 101 employees, more rules. spain has reformed the stupid work rules that they no longer have to pay 42 months severance pay now it is just 24 months. that is still two years. >> if they turn out badly you will turn up and know them they show them two years. >> having 350,000 under severance pay but now just

200,000. why hire somebody to pay that much to fire them? >> a very good question. to be sure that they want them. it is the decision not allot of employers are willing to make. john: i assume people cheat? >> lot of people cheat. they are expected and that is what keeps the inspector in business. it is easier and cheaper to bribe the inspector then goes to the motion to pay the taxes and declare an come and workers. john: singapore has a booming economy. no minimum-wage comment no

laws against discrimination. if you fire, four weeks termination notice and unemployment is at 2%. >> you can start of business, flexible, hire and fire and it makes it attractive. john: thank you anne jolis and thank god we don't have those dumb laws. we have plenty. weird getting more and people want more like a guaranteed vacation. >> absolutely. we work too hard. france and italy six weeks is normal. john: america does not have mandatory vacation but we have 170,000 pages of federal rules and they keep passing more. it shows how america has recovered since the great

depression. to sit out this graph from dan mitchell because of these rules add this up and the government spending, tax increase coming can understand when our entrepreneurs think i do not want to hire people then i want to keep my company small then i am stuck with a mandate. i am worried we become like you're up at the same time that model is falling apart. john: we did have these laws but not as many. >> as much as seven like the regulated laissez-faire economy just make sure you

have enough breathing room to prosper. over time if government grows faster than a private sector that wedge means the burden of gdp, it is not like one straw causes it to collapse, but there is a tipping point*. are we five years away from being greece or italy? twenty years? i don't know. this trendline is bad. happening under bush and obama. it does not work. john: good intentions and that go bad. clean energy's. >> solyndra. the tip of the a's spurred. dozens of companies go bad. the story behind the story. campaign contributors

contributors, interest free loans from the government, distorting capital, it means resources are being used less productively and workers get lower wages and it adds up to the bad situation. john: president bush says it to oklahoma you take care of things it is good for the economy. >> collor you create a housing bubble. those people were the ones that had to walk out onto the plank then we all fall into the shark infested waters 87 tax credits. >> sounds great. but from the tax code in 1913 only 14 pages we have warped into the 702000 page monster.

more than 1,000 different forms to download. nobody understands. h&r block loves it but it is a news around the neck of the american economy. every page has something in it that sounds good but look what it adds up to 27 spending. the welfare state. people say take care of people. unintended consequence? >> you heard those most vulnerable. the welfare state is like flypaper. there are shocking figures showing as the income rises to live the american dream, you start to get taxed on one end the

government takes away benefits on the other end those who lose a living standard with $10,000 more in salaries. >> they play more in taxes and lose government benefits. >> earned income credit, of welfare benefits, medicaid, food stamps, housing assistance, you're on a treadmill. you are running harder and it goes backwards. think of the mmssage that since. they think i will not work as hard or get disability. john: in pennsylvania with $29,000 of income you are better to stay there than earning 55,000. >> i hope that is the

exception. don't earn more because you lose the safety net. maybe that did not have disincentive we would not have our problem. john: it could antigen gone bad. the

>> and nationwide test will begin any moment in. john: that is exciting. >> you cannot avoid it by flat being dead channel. it is everywhere. john: must be the federal government for good the emergency alert system starting with the system to warn as if the russians attacked. then we had the integrated public alert system that they can reach the public in 10 minutes. then taxpayers were built

commercial mobile alert system so government can reach you on your cellphone. they say thank goodness. >> of course. when something is happening how else do we know? >> the general attitude is a year safer except have you ever been warned by anything? you often get warnings from us and radio stations of other threats but the emergency alert system? never. even on september 11 the system was not activated although it existed 60 years it was not tested until jaime barnett's said we should test it.

you were the homeland security bureau chief and it had never been tested? >> was amazed. we had assist them part of the national preparedness and we know you don't expect what you don't inspect. i wrote a memo and sent it to the white house that resulted november 9th 2011. john: it could be the local station testing on its own. >> that is the fallacy. i assumed the whole test was being carried out. john: was a successful? >> we knew we could come up with what did not connect. and 90% could receive the

signal and retransmit. john: how was that successful it is only a 19% of the main stations? >> it was to test where the problems were. >> you call that successful that must be a government definition because the private sector calls that a failure spurred by the federal government will conduct a test of the emergency alert system. >> it hit a few snags. >> of fox viewers heard nothing. >> direct tv cable viewers heard lady gaga play how is that day's success? >> my wife is a

schoolteacher 90% get sunday in her class. god love the people who love lady gaga. that is a rule to say you could not have dead air. because of the back they thought we have to put in some music and she was a benefactor 57 i don't need to know the president is in charge but what to do. local media tells me. >> but it can't be done immediately. i think that is a legitimate it local news function but look to the earthquake up couple years ago that was

not much damage. what if it wiped out york and washington? it will work when nothing else does. others would have been knocked off. john: you'll learn about it from tv and radio. i learned about it now. >> i have a battery operated radio. >> the anchor man says this happened. >> this is a boondoggle. and you guys never stop. >> make sure the public remains safe. >> 12 hours after the storm began it look like the

emergency alert because take shelter now. 12 hours into the storm i am not personally directing it at you this is government thinking spend the money for a second to rate stuff. >> you mentioned of local alert. we have to and include training for emergency workers say you are right. 12 hours is not acceptable that was a failure but to still have dealer system i appreciate the fact i got the alert that said take cover. john: thank you jamie barnett.

my government projects may from dangerous chemicals. base steady if this dangerous to wash your hands with this so poor brush with this toothpaste. their conclusion?

john: school is boring. those are students at a charter school. public-school is free of the rules and bureaucracy. some have used the freedom to do much better job. kids get high test scores and the school makes learning fun. >> reading his work but it is a rocking awesome. >> school is fun? >> they teach us in a fun

way. john: you look forward to going to school? >> yes. twenty-seven regular government schools get results because they are a government monopoly of almost always do a lousy job. up against the education blob that his job of the hunt teachers' union comment janitor union, bureaucrats they're resist change that is why -- while i was excited charters schools. schools could experiment the parents would see how much better it could be and kids would benefit from the innovation. it is not happening. sometimes. but the center for education reform says the charter movement has gone wrong.

what happened is an example. >> my group have put together an application to start a charter school and we have been repeatedly stonewalled 57 because of your own daughter's experience you've got together with people and said we will start a charter. >> the first application was 100 pages could. denied. >> they said there was not a need we had typographical errors in the application. john: wouldn't mcdonald's like to say that to burger king? >> yes. john: you try again. >> we fixed them and we got more people involved and we needed to show more apparent support.

the first application had 70 letters the second was 125 letters. still denied. john: six times. this is typical. >> it is more and more typical. all-purpose of the charter school movement was to create new public schools, held accountable but free from most rules and regulation. but government encroaches everyday on people who want to start schools. john: the blob in charge they don't that competition state education department even the best states we have an of the highest performing traders goals and arizona the director spends 30% of the time filling out paperwork they tried to

squeeze her school into a box. she has to report on the improvement plan. for what? john: i tried to make sure the kids are protected. >> but did her case are all kids reading at grade level? in no. math? no. qualified founders who have recognized something they want to do and we say don't come and? it is a movement people tried to get away from. >> i have resisted undid the union's teachers showed up shame on you. then they demanded i try teaching. >> you can teach for one week.

john: the crowd like to the idea. so why surprise them to say sure. i was ready. but the blob did its thing and would not let that have been after endless meetings they decided i should not teach for one week like they embraced the soviet bureaucracy they don't care about the kids? >> i cannot imagine why they stopped a school like hers and why existing charter schools zero or washington dc. >> speculate. >> they are so afraid to make any mistakes and fears a brisk if they are not the very best they will the longer be in business risk

is in every great business. if you want high-quality want to take a brisk. >> we will keep trying. we have an appeal on the fifth application. john: good luck. du you use any of these products? cleaned with this? so there has government's steadying it. what did the

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john: people want government to keep us safe. the water we drink, the air we breathe.

of the soap we use? in done name of protecting us the government has studied the ingredients of the antibacterial soap under our deodorant has a chemical that kills germs. total tuesday's. the bureaucrats steady they have than steadying and now 40 years and still have not made a decision. paul alexander robo book called pandemic people versus terms. 40 years? >> the product was invented to start a review process. the fda decided it was safe

to be effective they weren't certain that if was safe and there is some environmental group. then the environmental groups came into protests it was substance was dangerous. and to have research to back it up. >> and to save nine humans

to use the product but a and the ap -- epa to label the pesticide. >> is good for identified this. john: it kills a pass. >> the epa bacteria is a fancy word for a germ is considered a past. then these in midges of ddt. >> johnson & johnson and? >> quite an extensive use of. maybe they say that publicly but to predict it will happen in the future.

finally after 40 years they make a decision to go against them. in terms of planning commit makes sense to assume after 40 years they may never make a decision if they do, it may not be in their favor. is a safe product and it is then your toothpaste. john: your tax dollars at work? >> more horrible examples of government good intention gone wrong. you have to obey this.

john: good intentions gone wrong? that is what this is. said darth frank locke, hundreds of pages supposed to protect us from the evil banks for kabbalah addition say they took needless risks and mortgages because there was deregulation. >> reckless the regulation

if we do not act the bad situation will become worse. john: they got it through 848 pages. i have not read it but a lawyer who has specializes in garbage like this. >> the problem is the myth surrounding this that the biggest that is it deregulation. john: 11 george bush? >> even earlier. ronald reagan and throughout the clinton era. john: george w. bush hired 86,000 more regulators. >> banking is one of the most regulated industries if not the most. the problem was not deregulation but we had a crisis caused by a massive

industry in real-estate due to policies to seven everybody encouraged to take out a mortgage. there will intended. they crafted the bill. logic says this will protect us? >> dodd/frank does not end the bailout are too big to fail. john: all this? that is left in here and even encouraged because it implies some banks will be bailed out. >> right. when you say the bank is systemic you say it is an institution to big and important and critical to allow to be left 57 they

have labeled them systemic. it shows what happens and white increases the risk. the big banks can borrow money more cheaply because they think the government will bail them out. >> creditors know they will not be bailed out if they fail so they give them money at it cheaper rate. >> jpmorgan chase pays $4 interest but the small bank pays $70 $0.50. they stay small the big banks get bigger. >> the more likely you are to be bailed out. john: i do make more money. it does other terrible things? >> something people need to realize is dodd/frank and

900 pages but it is just a mandate that says you have to make rules on a variety of topics. >> it says go right to new 400 new rules there is 400 it requirements of those 1/3 have been finalized. many year not enforced. 1/3 have been proposed and one-third are yet to to be proposed. we have only seen a small segment of rule-making. >> liv but just to keep up with these nobody could do it and it requires huge

numbers of huge manpower hours. john: 24 million hours each year for the roles they have passed so far. >> approximately based on 200. 400 you could double that. john: no wonder the economy does not recover. >> if they were rules people could apply and understand but will we have seen their role say we will do whatever we want to. zero been discretion to do whatever we want. we don't know what they will do. >> we will decide later. >> pretty much the subtext. john: good intentions and gone bad.

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growing pile of laws, 170,000 pages already. they propose a thousand new ones every week. at the bill signing, everyone feels good, and the public seems to buy it. they think a problem is solved. after all, no kids in washington ask the congressmen what laws did you repeal? it's congressman, what laws have you passed? so they pass and pass and laws pile up. for every one of these, there's an unintended consequence or several. the track record is clear. central planners failed in the soviet uni,, cuba, in america's public school systems, at the post office. central planning stops innovation, distorts the economy; yet, for all of that failure whenever another crisis hits, natural instinct is to say government has to do something. why don't we learn? because there are awless problems that must be solved. there are always politicians who

claim to be problem solvers. they are so interested in our welfare. that's all they talk aboutment some went to harvard, so they must be so smart. we believe them, then, when they say, yes, we can. >> yes, we can. >> yes, we can. >> yes, we can. [cheers and applause] >> real life says they can't do things including free people. no, they can't. yes, they can pass a law, but the law does not solve the problem, but creates new ones. in my city last week, there were protests in front of mcdonalds. unions want fast workers paid more. the new "new york times" put thn the front page saying mcdonalds pays her $8, but she deserves $15 #. civil ights groups, union demands a higher living wage,

and they may get it. [chanting] >> the big bad union like the big bad wolf like the government use force. if they want a $15 minimum, that's what employers must pay. that sounds good to people. everyone will get a raise. the problem comes from what is not seen. i can interview the guy who got a raise. i can't interview the guy who didn't open a mcdonalds because work rules were too onerous or those never offered a job because high union paid skills protected him out of a job. we don't know who those people are. they are the unscene victims of the government's protections. it's frustrating to explain the unseen. sometimes i fear no one understands so it's a relief to meet